(Suggestion) Normal Map/Lighting reception

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Zadion
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(Suggestion) Normal Map/Lighting reception

Postby Zadion » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:15 pm

I was searching for different sprite styles, and i found this interesting trick to give depth to scenery.
This is made using Normal Maps, like a material to 3d models, would be interesting some resource to emulate this, using layers or something.

Image

Image

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Mike
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Re: (Suggestion) Normal Map/Lighting reception

Postby Mike » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:55 pm

I'm surprised it got overlooked actually. I don't mind working on this, though I can't promise you it'll be in the next version. Out of curiosity, do you (or anyone else) have any suggestions on how the option should be applied? Right now we have an option for tile-sets and one for models, but the solution for them wouldn't apply for this situation. AnvilHouse suggested we make it an additional animation like any other item on the list, but that'd require things to be set up perfectly, which could be difficult.

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Zadion
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Re: (Suggestion) Normal Map/Lighting reception

Postby Zadion » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:33 pm

I think the easier way to apply this resource is using some depth detection in gray textures. It's a bit difficult to explain.

Diffuse texture (only colors)
diffuse.png
diffuse.png (463 Bytes) Viewed 2527 times


Depth texture
heightmap.png
heightmap.png (796 Bytes) Viewed 2527 times


Result
example.png


(Sorry for bad translation)

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Mike
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Re: (Suggestion) Normal Map/Lighting reception

Postby Mike » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:47 pm

No, it'd still function the way normal maps do. I'm merely asking for suggestions about where the option would be in the editor. Normal maps can be generated from grayscale depth images.

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Zadion
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Re: (Suggestion) Normal Map/Lighting reception

Postby Zadion » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:20 pm

My suggestion... if i understood now, for characters, maybe in the Lighting Mode options, or in the animation sprites panel, and for tile-sets, maybe a panel similar to the "animation" panel where we put different tile-sets to animate.

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Re: (Suggestion) Normal Map/Lighting reception

Postby Jayfeather » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:04 am

I've been playing around with normal mapping sprites, I considered creating a new thread to discuss this, but determined for practical purposes it would be better to resurrect an established thread where I can build upon what is already there and not have to rehash every thing..

Mike wrote:I'm surprised it got overlooked actually. I don't mind working on this, though I can't promise you it'll be in the next version. Out of curiosity, do you (or anyone else) have any suggestions on how the option should be applied? Right now we have an option for tile-sets and one for models, but the solution for them wouldn't apply for this situation. AnvilHouse suggested we make it an additional animation like any other item on the list, but that'd require things to be set up perfectly, which could be difficult.


I think this would be the best way to go about doing this, simply having it be a animation layer would make it straight forward. All My frames are tend to be the same size any way as it expedites my work flow to have every thing is lined up automatically. For me this would hold true for the Normal Maps as well. I for one can't think of a better way to do this besides having way to link the layers together and move both of them at once (which could be a useful feature in and of itself.)

To add to this subject, I found this discussion at the Daz Forums to be interesting:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/47049/can-you-render-normal-maps/p1

Near the end of the of the thread they are discussing a shader recipe for rendering a normal map of a particular scene. Could be useful.

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Mike
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Re: (Suggestion) Normal Map/Lighting reception

Postby Mike » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:54 am

I'm not particularly concerned about how to implement it as the engine already handles normal maps in 2D and 3D in most other cases. There is actually a significant amount of work in making this possible from the editor-side. Would have to have an option that references another layer (and all the changes that could happen in between). Honestly, it would take nearly a week to get it all right and there'd still be chances of bugs that come up, some of which still come up from the normal maps in the tile-set editor. And then there's all the issues of various options that would simply be ignored for being assigned as the normal map. It just adds another layer of messiness with this approach, which is why I was hoping for another solution. But as you said, there is likely none at this point.

It's a shame, because I'd really like to see, for example, the new point-and-click DLC take advantage of this, or seeing this in other games. I'm not saying a complete no, but the demand for it is pretty limited, having only been brought up once every year. Nevertheless, I've added it to my shortlist todo for now.
Last edited by Mike on Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Automatically merged double post.

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AnvilHouse
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Re: (Suggestion) Normal Map/Lighting reception

Postby AnvilHouse » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:04 pm

i hope people do realize you can use a 3D rendering program to make a flat plane with the normal map and image. Then just import it as a 3D model to make this same effect

there are plenty of normal map generators out there so it could be done in minutes...maybe even seconds :P
its a workaround that popped into my head...i use the same method for making my foliage

though it should be said, on average it would add 6-8kb per image in file size
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Re: (Suggestion) Normal Map/Lighting reception

Postby Jayfeather » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:34 am

AnvilHouse wrote:i hope people do realize you can use a 3D rendering program to make a flat plane with the normal map and image. Then just import it as a 3D model to make this same effect


I have seen this mentioned before, (I Don't remember where) I would like to see more details on how this is set up in regard to animation and multiple directions. I could easily do this with a single frame, that wouldn't be much different than using tiles though...

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Re: (Suggestion) Normal Map/Lighting reception

Postby AnvilHouse » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:16 pm

yep thats the issue with this workaround, since you cant add multiple frames of 3d models (like with the sprite image sequencing) you only end up with 1 static frame

you could though in theory create a separate sprite for each frame, then use a timer to change the body/sprite on map....but that would just get horrible pretty quick XD
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Mike
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Re: (Suggestion) Normal Map/Lighting reception

Postby Mike » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:59 pm

I think if given some free time, I might give a swing at this. Again, could make some 2D games look great, and might as well take advantage of the engine's existing ability to use normal maps.

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Re: (Suggestion) Normal Map/Lighting reception

Postby Whoacoder » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:13 pm

I recently saw this feature in another program and I also support it haha. Pretty positive I could find some good uses for this in a top down game

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Mike
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Re: (Suggestion) Normal Map/Lighting reception

Postby Mike » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:48 pm

Added for next version :D !
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Re: (Suggestion) Normal Map/Lighting reception

Postby Jayfeather » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:28 pm

Sweet! Thanks for the work putting this in.


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